July 13, 1999
by Stephen Hildreth
Editor-in-Chief

Our article "Lombard and NewWorld ROM Problems" unleashed a flurry of emails. Here are a few:

From Glen Cole:
"Regarding today's (Mon, 7/12) column on New World ROM problems, as painfully experienced recently with the dreaded "flashing question mark" on a new Lombard (and why does it alternate with a SMILING face?), here's a thought or two.

Since (re)selecting the startup disk didn't help, what if you had a backup copy of the ROM (it's just a file, right?) in another directory? Then, instead of reinstalling your system software as the only remaining choice, you could drop the "backup ROM" on the system folder (replacing the apparently-corrupt file) and reboot. For that matter, rather than risk corruption on your disk-based copy, perhaps it's worth copying just the ROM from the system
folder on your original CD. Also, I note that the ROM file is not locked. (Heck, clicking on the name even allowed me to change it! No, thanks. ;) Would locking the file help?"

From Braswell Brandt:
"While Apple says that you need to reinstall your "system software", in my understanding of the New World ROM, that's not really the case. If the NWROM becomes corrupt, all you should need to do is:

(a) boot from your original system CD (or a recent Software Restore CD for NWROM machines. As a AASP, we get these frequently)

(b) on your original system CD, locate the Important Extra System Software folder, and copy the MacOS ROM file to your System Folder.

(c) select your internal HD from the Startup Disk CP.

(d) reboot.

Now, if you've installed the ROM update, and your 'Book didn't have it to begin with, then obviously, you'll have to reinstall it. A good idea is to make a backup copy of the ROM file (StuffIt, and save it somewhere) so you will have the most recent version handy. I've got a Lombard/400, too, and have yet to have the problem. I've only had it for a week and a half, though. All of our campus's other NWROM machines, however, have yet to have the problem you've mentioned. I'd offer that it's more of a sign of impending disk problems than a problem with the NWROM architecture; after all, the NWROM is a file, just like any other..."

From Doug Duncan:
"I have had the problem twice on start up, in the first month, on my G3/333 Lombard with the question mark folder. The first time a reinstall of the system software solved the problem. The second time after consulting with Apple help line over the phone, I had to reinitialize my hard drive. I had forced quit after a freeze using an older version of Photoshop. Apple people told me that New World architecture does not like any thing but the most current software. The software developers are going to love New World
(New Revenue) architecture."

From Chris Carlton:
"I've actually had this problem "Occasionally", in fact I'm on my 15th+ System since getting my Lombard in early June. It's getting old to say the least. I was chalking it up to software or RAM/Harddisk upgrade weirdness and hadn't had the time to diagnose it
properly.

My temporary fix is to:
1) Have a "fresh" system file on hand at all times on the hard disk
2) Make sure my G3 Boot CD is always at hand
3) Boot with the CD and copy (option-drag) the "fresh" system file into the working system folder to replace the system in question, make sure the folder is blessed (has the proper icon) before rebooting.

It's worked for me 10 of the last 10 times, but it's a pain in the A$$"

From Neil Thorne:
"I've found on Blue G3's that one can usually boot off the cd, replace the Mac OS ROM File on the G3 with the one on the CD (or a backed up copy), set the Startup Disk in the control panel, and restart. Of a dozen encounters like the one you describe, only one was not solved by the method above. I have not yet, however, had a chance to tackle this problem on a Lombard."

From Tod Abbott:
"The problem with missing or corrupted ROM files may not be quite as bad as you describe.

Back in OS 8.1 days, I kept backup copies of my System and Finder files in (separate) folders on my disk. I had a pesky bug that allowed Netscape to regularly corrupt one of them (I'm not sure I ever bothered to figure out just which one it was). Anyway, when the problem appeared, the machine successfully booted from an emergency System on a different partition, I just replaced the corrupted files with copies of the copies, rebooted, and off I went.

I suspect that the New World ROM is contained inside the new System file called "System Resources." Keeping a copy of that handy may well mean the difference between being back up and working quickly and having to reinstall the system.

I haven't had this problem with my new PowerBook yet, but if I do, and this fixes the problem, I'll let you know"

From Terry Brady:
"Don't panic so much :-)

1. Don't lose your original system software CD. Make a backup. Keep it in your PowerBook carry bag. It's the most useful CD you'll ever own.

2. Before you charge into a clean system software installation, just try replacing the Mac OS ROM file on your hard disk with the one from the CD. If it was the ROM which was the problem then it'll be fixed just like that!"

From Fred Blome:
"This is exactly what happened to me, only my PB-G3-333 was less than 2 weeks old. The ablilty to boot from the original PB CD was random, which really scared me becuase I was sitting there with a dead machine. When I was able to start it, DiskFirst Aid was unable to scan it. Apple Drive Setup recognized the internal drive but was unable to mount it. Updating the driver and rebooting did not help. TechTool Pro was not any help. My only recourse was to reinitialize, and the spend countless hours reinstalling everthing that I just did a short time ago. Am I happy?"

From Steve F:
"The same thing happened to me yesterday, i.e. flashing folder/smiley Mac OS face.. Fortunately (for now anyway), I was able to restart using the system disk and then chose the internal hard drive as the start up disk. Fortunately I did not have to re-install the system. I was not even aware of this problem until I read your article today. This problem (and problems with USB) are some action items Apple needs to put on the front burner. This is "not-ready-for-prime-time" software."

From Rohin Hattiangadi:
"I had experienced a similar problem.... Apparently there were some problems with my hard disk which I think exacerbated the situation.

Another user Told me about the Directory utility Diskwarrior... and after running it ... once every week or two.. the problem has not recurred.

Luck or random chance?? I think there are still some small bugs in HFS + which may be showing up more often in NewWorld machines (which are more dependent on ram loading etc. etc.)

Just a thought... get diskwarrior anyway .. it fixes a heck of a lot more than Norton could (with my bad disk) in fact Norton created more damage than it fixed.. Diskwarrior cleaned it all up in a hurry)."

From Allen Kelson:
"For years, I've kept self-extracting archives of newly installed System and Finder files in my System Folder. If one of the originals became corrupted, I just unstuffed an archive. Now, with NW ROM a third mandatory file's been added to the equation. I'm just keeping an archive of all three in my System Folder. If trouble crops up, I'll boot from my original CD, expand the archive in my old System Folder, and hopefully be back in business."

From Ken Richardson:
"I do not have a way to prevent the problem, but there is always an easier way to fix it than reinstalling the system software. This problem did happen to me on an iMac the day after I set it up for someone. I copied the system file, the Mac ROM file and the system resource file (I think) back into the system folder and rebooted.

While the above can work, I prefer a more robust solution. Make a compressed disk image archive of your system folder using Apple's disk copy program. I create an archive of the system folder as it comes directly from Apple and after I add in various software. When your system goes down for the count for any reason, you can copy back the archived system folder to the hard drive and boot from it. One of the reasons to use disk copy is that it verifies the integrity of the information in the archive and you will know for certain you are restoring good files.

There are several steps involved in this process.

1. Assuming your system is currently dead, boot from a CD.
2. Rename your old system folder 'System Folder - Damaged'. I never outright delete a system folder and usually wait a week or so if there is some preference or setting created since the archive was made. Did you ever forget to write down that IP address?
3. Copy the files from the archive into a folder, 'System Folder'.

The next few step involve "blessing" which folder will be the boot folder.

4. Open up 'System Folder - Damaged' and move the 'System' file to the hard drive (basically, just remove it from the folder).
5. Open up the folder 'System Folder' and then double click on the 'System' file. Next, close the 'System' file and 'System Folder'. This folder is now the active system folder. Usually, a picture should appear on the 'System Folder' icon with pre-iMacs, but I have noticed with iMacs that the icon doesn't always appear. You may want to close the hard drive
window and open it again to see if it appears. If it appears, you are golden.
6. Return the 'System' file we placed into the hard drive back into the folder , 'System Folder - Damaged'.

If your computer can boot from the hard drive, you can perform the above steps without using a CD. You can actually switch the active system folder while the computer is using that system folder. For complex system setups I will go as far as making a disk image of the entire system and then create a CD for restoration purposes."

From Mike Gallant:
"One thing you might try is dropping in to Open Firmware on boot (hold down cmd-opt-O-F). Then, once you're at the OF command line prompt, try typing "boot hd:,\\:tbxi" followed by return. What this does is tells Open Firmware exactly where to look to find the Mac OS ROM file (in this case, you're telling it to look on the first usable partition of the internal drive
("hd:), in the system folder ("\\") for a file of type tbxi (":tbxi")). If this doesn't work, then your Mac OS ROM file is likely hosed and you will have to track down your system software CD. There are other options, but they require access to another powerbook and a usable copy of the Mac OS ROM file. If you do find your system CD, you can boot off of it, then copy the Mac OS ROM file from the system folder on the system CD into the system folder of your powerbook hard drive. Then use the Startup Disk CP to select the internal HD as the startup disk and you should be set."

From Paul Yoh:
"I did have a big startup problem but not with the question mark but rather that once the hard drive was mounted, the 'book CRASHED!! Gave me address bus error and system 11 error message. I did everything I could possibly know how to deal with it. As many of you may know, TechTool 2.11 and Norton 4.0 is useless as startup disk. It was not extension conflict as I was able to start up without extensions (SHIFT KEY) and it still crashed. The only thing I could do to access the hard drive without reinitializing everything was to REBUILD THE DESKTOP (option and command key). Then I had techtool find me why it crashes and it told me that a folder had major file structure error. That was Mac Amp MP3 player I installed 2 days prior. I tossed that out and problems solved. Today, the Norton automatic checker found that I had BAD BLOCKS, which was confirmed by TECHTOOL and Apple's System Setup which it could not fix. Besides reinitializing the whole drive, is there anything I can do to FIX THIS? Anyone here know how? I really would appreciate this. Norton is unable to FIX this unless Norton is the the Startup disk (you know that this doesn't work on Lombard series). I am going to save all my critical work onto my old trusty Performa 6300. Not good for me not to trust on this lovely machine."

From Tom Voegeli:
"I've had my PB333 for almost 5 weeks now. I had the joy of finding the "Flashing Question Mark / Face Laughing" at me during final newspaper production crush. Reselect the StartUp Drive? What drive? My hard drive was unrecognizable and I did not want to reinitialize it as the window suggested. Using the System CD, I used Disk First Aid several times (it could find the disk, but all errors could not be fixed). I reinstalled the system (not a fresh install) onto the barely recognizable hard drive. Voila! Back in business with just one hour wasted. A few days later, I did a fresh install. I always carry the system CD with the PB. Heat is not a problem. The CD (and/or HD and/or Fan?) has been rumbly 3 times, and seems to be a harmonic problem perhaps because the volume of the noise sometimes is lessened by adjusting the angle of the screen. Overall, I think this power book is terrific. It is far more powerful & portable than my PowerTower & 21" monitor."

From Ario Leach:
"We have four new 400-mhz Lombards in our shop and they all fail to boot regularly -- mine was requiring me to "fix" my system folder at least once a day! I figured out pretty quickly, as did your other readers, that "reinstall your System folder" is an old Windows cop-out, and replacing three essential files (System, System Resources, and Mac OS ROM) from a backup did the trick. Note: my Macs wouldn't let me replace these files with the copies on the CD, so I highly recommend making backup copies on your hard drive BEFORE the problem happens.

Anyway, our lowest moment came when our managing member's Lombard crashed, he couldn't find his startup disc, and he therefore wasn't able to use his computer for 24 hours until we sent him another copy. I purchased Conflict Catcher via electronic download and spent that night scrutinizing our System folders for the last time, to figure out what was corrupting our files.

The answer? In our case, it was FaxSTF. We had all upgraded to the latest version, but no matter -- we disabled it completely a week ago and haven't had the startup problem yet on any of our Lombards.

My conclusion is that the NewWorld ROM architecture isn't inherently problematic, but is much more vulnerable to software conflicts, with much worse results in the event of a hard crash. I hoped the stability would increase when I upgraded to OS 9.0, but there was no perceptible change. Maybe a future version? Meanwhile, I'm in an odd position where I'm thankful every time my PowerBook crashes -- just as long as it starts up again!

Thanks for the opportunity to share what has been an almost comically frustrating experience...."

Care to contribute to this discussion?